Egregoros

@p

"did you seriously say that black people are not smart enough to listen to people that are a different color"

No.

---

"If the color of the speaker does not matter, why does making sure that the speaker is *not* black mean anything?"

Because Black historians and researchers are already deemed by some as not credible in this discussion - they are deemed to be implicitly biased.

Hence I use non-Blacks.

---

"If you can't just talk then why would quoting someone help?"

For me at least, my argument is done and concluded. It is as real for me as the roundness of the earth is.

So I just point people to some resources I found and let them argue with the sources. In other words "Don't take my word for it."

---

"Why talk to you if you've stopped being a reasoning entity in order to act as a search engine? I ain't tryna talk to a human bot."

P, sometimes talking to you is like talking to an LLM. You can certainly generate a lot of text.

At the end of the day, I don't need to convince of something I am convinced is true. You don't need to read anything of mine that you are convinced is false.

But we can certainly engage in a spectacle for others - where time permits - if they are undecided or curious about the topic.

---

"Yeah, the issue is the trying to win an argument: instead of engaging on this topic, you just post some link to something. If you can't address the evidence to the contrary by doing anything except posting a link to someone else saying the opposite, you're broadcasting. It's not worth reading. You read a credible historian and they'll pull all the primary sources, they'll read the commentary, they'll note contradictory evidence, and this is the difference between someone that cares what the truth is and someone that wants to get you to think something because they want you to behave as if that thing were true."

For me, there is no argument, only disagreement.

If you want a debate, kindly write up your understanding of my claims, attach as a PDF or MD, and I will respond in kind - pictures, links etc.

That way, we can have your debate, without ultralong hellthread posts.

Deal?

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> No.

Here's a video of a black man saying that you *did* say that.

> Because Black historians and researchers are already deemed by some as not credible in this discussion

You've missed the point entirely.

> let them argue with the sources

This is you doing exactly the thing that I said was fucked up to do. You're not worth engaging with if this is what you are going to do.

> You can certainly generate a lot of text.

It was actually shorter than the post it was responding to. (2,441 characters from me, 2,501 from you.)

The difference is that I've thought about what you said and then I thought about my response. This is one of the reasons it's parasitic behavior to just paste something someone else said: why is it worth thinking about what you have to say if you're not extending the same courtesy or even deliberately trying to exhaust? So it gets easy to write people off if they can't manage to actually engage.

> But we can certainly engage

I'm happy to talk, I like to talk, I like to think and argue points, but I hate to do a motivated-reasoning debate.

> If you want a debate

If I wanted to, I'd bring it up; you bring it up and I read posts and respond to them.

> without ultralong hellthread posts

Some things warrant more words.

@p

OK, so you want to argue for argument's sake without referring to sources?

You're right, I am missing your point entirely.

And if some things warrant more words, why not write them in a letter and attach to the thread, to give the arguments the attention they deserve?

---

Let's assume for the sake of argument, that I am dead wrong about my assertion. Shouldn't be hard for anyone here judging by the commentary.

So, if I am dead wrong about Jesus being Black, then:

1) A self-proclaimed freespeechextremist should either regard it as noise, or argue in good faith.

2) Just as there are biological males on the fedi cosplaying as females, and whites cosplaying as Nazis, I can cosplay a Black Israelite with the implication that Jesus would too be black, right?








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@bajax

"Favouring free speech for everyone doesn't mean you have any issue mocking what idiots do with it."

Agreed.

My point was reasonableness - specifically, "is it reasonable for someone to attack, or wait for others to attack, a person merely saying 'Praise Black Jesus' when they disagree with that statement in whole or in part? When they have a history of permitting far more egregious behaviour in the name of freespeechextremism?"

Say, for argument's sake, that P is pro-LGBT. Even if he was, prior to Revolver, should he as an admin allowed a then underage user to spam mature age users with adult themed memes or commentary? I say no, for the child's sake, ban them.

Say P were racist and did not like Jews (nominal Jews anyways) or Black People. Is it right (reasonable) for him allow such speech on his free speech platform? Absolutely. Even if the poster calls for violence against those groups? Certainly, if laws allow it. Yet, it's kinda strange when a certain user makes a joke about a politician *hypothetically* meeting his/her untimely demise by some means and P has that post deleted (or coerces that user to delete it) because the Feds are watching his site.

TLDR:

My picture is making the claim that P's differences with me are neither logical, nor reasonable, nor for the safe use of his site by other users or in compliance with the law (I am not on his site anymore). His differences with me are simply personal. While he is entitled and encouraged to have personal differences with me, trying to masquerade them as academic or philosophical is below him, and not worthy of anyone's time.

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> "is it reasonable for someone to attack, or wait for others to attack, a person merely saying 'Praise Black Jesus' when they disagree with that statement in whole or in part? When they have a history of permitting far more egregious behaviour in the name of freespeechextremism?"

Am I not "permitting" you to do it? This is exactly what the "more egregious" people have claimed: "Oh, you made fun of me, that's censorship!" I heard the same shit from the Hitler-humpers. I don't know how running the pipes means that I waive the right to think something is stupid. I'm not stopping you; you've seen me shit on "white Jesus" when the gablins blew through. There's no evidence of any kind of genetic shift, so you look at the current Levantine population and you should assume.

> and P has that post deleted (or coerces that user to delete it) because the Feds are watching his site.

This is a very interesting choice of words.

A "specific, credible, imminent threat" is the threshold. There's also stuff that, for the sake of not attracting cops,

> My picture is making the claim that P's differences with me are neither logical, nor reasonable, nor for the safe use of his site by other users or in compliance with the law

I don't think you've ever bothered to pay attention to what I do or why, but get in line behind all of the other people that aren't running a server but that don't like how I run this one.

> His differences with me are simply personal.

You flatter yourself. Find a case where I applied things inconsistently and tilted them against you. You tried this with the clanker shit a while ago; "You just don't like that *I* used an LLM to textwall you!" I use that Markov bot to *discourage* people from replying to me: it's evident that I think getting a wall of text from a robot is a deterrent.

> trying to masquerade them as academic or philosophical is below him, and not worthy of anyone's time.

Shit like this makes it sound like it's personal for you.
wifepassed...out.png

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> if I am everything you say I am

I didn't say too much about you personally; I addressed what you said. Can you separate these things?

If you would prefer that I make it personal, I think you're basically half checked-out, your memory seems spotty, and you've been real whiny this year. When you announced that you had a kid, I wrote it off as fatigue, and I suspect you've still got another three months of fatigue ahead of you. You apparently are certain that there's a double-standard because you're confident in asserting things that you haven't bothered verifying. That's fine, I don't expect to be the focus of most people's attention, but I do think it's retard behavior to make accusations of persecution.

"You think this is persecution, you son of a bitch?", etc., old post screenshat and attached.

And that's the other thing common among people that have complaints that I have criticized one of their ideas and they claimed that criticism runs counter to freedom of speech: they'll say all kinds of personal shit about me, but the second I say something mildly personal they'll claim persecution again.

I do think there's a chance you go back to being affable but I also think you keep wandering back to Gab periodically and you come back all punchy because you forget how fedi works.
shitposters_only.png

@p

Two things.

1) "And that's the other thing common among people that have complaints that I have criticized one of their ideas and they claimed that criticism runs counter to freedom of speech: they'll say all kinds of personal shit about me, but the second I say something mildly personal they'll claim persecution again."

Where did I claim criticizing me is counter to free speech? Where? Where did I claim persecution? Show me so I can correct it.

2) "I do think there's a chance you go back to being affable but I also think you keep wandering back to Gab periodically and you come back all punchy because you forget how fedi works."

I haven't been on Gab for years. What on earth are you talking about? LOL, and it's a pity that you can only deal with affable me but not critical me.

Good grief.

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@p

Yeah bud. Perhaps saying "our differences are personal" can meet a textbook definition of 'persecution'.

But no one uses English like that today.

If I were to claim persecution, it would mean that I am overwhelmed and incapable of pushing back. I assure, I am neither.

There is no such thing as persecution in Hellthread. Even if people pile on you with f-bombs and n-words, heh.

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> If I were to claim persecution, it would mean that I am overwhelmed and incapable of pushing back.

You're not the most precise writer I have met but that's not the definition and a screenshot of a dictionary entry that says "persecution is the act or practice of persecuting" does not seem to get anything across. I think you mean to say that I have persecuted you due to some grudge that you think I have and I don't really care to argue the wording; if what I mean is unclear, you can examine the following:

PERSECUTE
Per"se*cute, v. t. [imp. & p. p. Persecuted; p. pr. & vb. n.
Persecuting.] Etym: [F. persécueter, L. persequi, persecutus, to
pursue, prosecute; per + sequi to follow, pursue. See Per-, and
Second.]

1. To pursue in a manner to injure, grieve, or afflict; to beset with
cruelty or malignity; to harass; especially, to afflict, harass,
punish, or put to death, for adherence to a particular religious
creed or mode of worship.
Do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully
use you, and persecute you. Matt. v. 44.

2. To harass with importunity; to pursue with persistent
solicitations; to annoy. Johnson.

Syn.
-- To oppress; harass; distress; worry; annoy.

PERSECUTION
Per`se*cu"tion, n. Etym: [F. persécution, L. persecutio.]

1. The act or practice of persecuting; especially, the infliction of
loss, pain, or death for adherence to a particular creed or mode of
worship.
Persecution produces no sincere conviction. Paley.

2. The state or condition of being persecuted. Locke.

3. A carrying on; prosecution. [Obs.]

@p

"I think you mean to say that I have persecuted you due to some grudge that you think I have and I don't really care to argue the wording; if what I mean is unclear, you can examine the following"

Close, you've been weird since the Pistolero / Revolver retard fight. That was a crazy thread. Thank goodness it was off timeline but we still subjected SJW@bae.st to it.



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@p

Who's memory is flaky now?

Are you really P?

I was like:

"Yo, P...don't you think it's a little weird that, your upcoming stack/web server is called "Revolver" but your moniker is "Pistolero"?"

And you asked me to explain, and I was like "um, well, technically, in modern parlance, a pistol is a type of handgun and a revolver is another type of handgun...and...well...they are not the same thing..."

And, as someone who prides themselves in precise use of language, and proofreading your words, you kinda went off on that. Even though I approached you privately about it. It was a little thing that went on for like 2 days.

It was years ago, but you have never been the same. Always ready to argue with me, always needing the final say, always needing to me right.

Even when I backed off, you would look for other times to have word duels. And perhaps that's why you don't like when I choose to "argue with pictures" or "links".

But, I don't care. It's out there. If you genuinely forgot, I forgive you. If you don't want to admit it, OK. I will be "the crazy guy inventing lies". I don't even need those who witnessed it to vouch for me.

Prodigal is dead. So was his delusions of who his peeps were.

I wish you peace.



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