I am generally anti-immigrant to the USA but I am also more or less an immigrant to Japan, where my "alien-ness" is more impactful. The irony is not lost on me.
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@sun Do you go to Japan and act like a total nigger and chimp out when they don't simply accept it? Do you demand that they adapt to you?
@echo I am a guest and I am doing my best to be respectful and fit in. It's hard but I'm trying.
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@Leyonhjelm @echo I think that people that assimilate can be as american as white anglos tbh.
@sun @Leyonhjelm @echo a pretty good percentage of the rightoids I’ve known personally seem to believe this, not saying you’re a rightoid, just taking the slight tangent
@clawfulneutral @Leyonhjelm @echo i'm kind of a fellow traveler with some ideas but i don't identify as right wing. not left wing either. i don't know what i am. i think a lot of people don't fit that paradigm anymore.
@sun @Leyonhjelm @echo I’m a leftoid by biology (I max out the Openness scale on the Five Factor personality inventory) but I grew up in a red state and have some appreciation for nuance, I guess. along with having seen conservative adjacent people be good for the right reasons with my own two eyes. I also have been extremely wary of groupthink almost my whole life, and there’s a whole lot of it happening in what passes for the American left.
@clawfulneutral @Leyonhjelm @echo i have a naturally high disgust reflex so i am probably naturally conservative
@sun @Leyonhjelm @echo haha, yeah still waiting for the followup research on that one
@sun
People often forget that you can be socially conservative in your ideas without thinking government is a good way to force it all.
@clawfulneutral @echo
People often forget that you can be socially conservative in your ideas without thinking government is a good way to force it all.
@clawfulneutral @echo
@clawfulneutral
I’m from firm “why is this my business” stock. The kind that’s generally socially “you do you” but crunchy when it comes to “don’t pollute my fucking water”
@sun @echo
I’m from firm “why is this my business” stock. The kind that’s generally socially “you do you” but crunchy when it comes to “don’t pollute my fucking water”
@sun @echo
@Leyonhjelm @clawfulneutral @echo we're killing the environment, it's just a fact, normally if you believe that that falls on an ideological split but if you have to believe it because it's true and you value truth, what do you do
@sun
Where I grew up it was billed as an extremely Democrat position to care about the environment even though the Republicans were equally pro-environment and unlike the Democrats had actual plans to do things to help it - which of course the Democrats ripped apart out of spite without providing their own alternate plans. Which the media spun as the Republicans making a foolish proposal and never mentioned the lack of a real Democrat proposal aside from scorched-earth environmentalism in the most anti-human forms possible. These have backfired but all the area negatively impacted is rural so the Democrat base doesn't give a shit.
If that helps give an idea why I have such contempt for politics in general but especially the way urbanites want to run shit from afar in places they generally don't go to begin with, but desperately care about".
I don't hate them. I just hate that they're so entrenched that they cannot process the idea that not every plan works as advertised.
@clawfulneutral @echo
Where I grew up it was billed as an extremely Democrat position to care about the environment even though the Republicans were equally pro-environment and unlike the Democrats had actual plans to do things to help it - which of course the Democrats ripped apart out of spite without providing their own alternate plans. Which the media spun as the Republicans making a foolish proposal and never mentioned the lack of a real Democrat proposal aside from scorched-earth environmentalism in the most anti-human forms possible. These have backfired but all the area negatively impacted is rural so the Democrat base doesn't give a shit.
If that helps give an idea why I have such contempt for politics in general but especially the way urbanites want to run shit from afar in places they generally don't go to begin with, but desperately care about".
I don't hate them. I just hate that they're so entrenched that they cannot process the idea that not every plan works as advertised.
@clawfulneutral @echo
@Leyonhjelm @sun @echo interesting you mention that, because where I grew up was also rural as fuck, and as a result I (for instance) don’t favor getting rid of the Electoral College because I see it as serving an important purpose for exactly these reasons. IMO EC vote distribution should be altered to be proportional to the popular vote + 2 to the winner of said popular vote by Constitutional amendment, and that’d solve some problems with American politics.
@Leyonhjelm @sun @echo I have a lot of appreciation for that point of view. the red state I spent most of my childhood in used to be closer to that, now it’s full on MAGA shoes, maximum belligerence, a product of at least 100 years of brain drain which accelerated sharply in the last 30
@noyoushutthefuckupdad @Leyonhjelm @sun @clawfulneutral But which anime titty, the left one or the right one? 
@noyoushutthefuckupdad @sun @Leyonhjelm @clawfulneutral @echo here to embrace some anime titties
@graf @noyoushutthefuckupdad @sun @Leyonhjelm @clawfulneutral @echo Understood.
🌿 
@sun @clawfulneutral @Leyonhjelm @echo
Those paradigms are erroneous to begin with and only stir division with people.
Those paradigms are erroneous to begin with and only stir division with people.
@clawfulneutral
I don’t even know what “right” even means at this point. Left and right are just political insults at this point with no meaningful fixed qualities.
@sun @echo
I don’t even know what “right” even means at this point. Left and right are just political insults at this point with no meaningful fixed qualities.
@sun @echo
@Leyonhjelm @sun @echo regarding what I said, I was talking about people who culturally lean more toward stereotypically conservative views + are more strongly interested in paying lower taxes
@clawfulneutral
I don’t know what that means. I’m honestly not trying to be a pain in the ass but American conservatism died generations ago and most people are so caught up in the fight that they don’t notice. Nobody is fighting for lower taxes or conservative views. It’s all rural vs urban and each side has the most hackneyed caricature view of the other. Neither is liberal or conservative, neither is really “right” nor “left”.
And it’s unfortunate for everyone involved. What most Americans want is simply a good place to raise their kids and fund a family. Everything else is a distraction to make them hate each other.
@sun @echo
I don’t know what that means. I’m honestly not trying to be a pain in the ass but American conservatism died generations ago and most people are so caught up in the fight that they don’t notice. Nobody is fighting for lower taxes or conservative views. It’s all rural vs urban and each side has the most hackneyed caricature view of the other. Neither is liberal or conservative, neither is really “right” nor “left”.
And it’s unfortunate for everyone involved. What most Americans want is simply a good place to raise their kids and fund a family. Everything else is a distraction to make them hate each other.
@sun @echo
@Leyonhjelm @clawfulneutral @echo there is kind of a real right wing now. i'm pretty sure they killed charlie kirk because he was supposed to be a vessel to redirect right wing rage into meaningless wheel spinning but he he defected
@sun
I definitely don’t want to get into glow ops here so I leave that one alone.
@clawfulneutral @echo
I definitely don’t want to get into glow ops here so I leave that one alone.
@clawfulneutral @echo
@clawfulneutral
Anyway, I got distracted. When I was growing up we had a lot of immigrant friends. Iranian. Mexican. Czech. A spattering of Asians across the board. They’d all come here just like the rest of us with the same goals. To be part of their community where they were raising their kids and making a living. Nobody was mad because you married a Japanese woman when you were there in the navy and have happa kids. Nobody cared that your family fled the Iranian revolution or came to work hard in America from a Mexico and were still working on fluency in English.
They did care if you did it lawfully.
Immigration now is a combination of non-assimilation, cultural carve outs, and in some cases takeovers. Many aren’t leaning English or are trying to ethnically take over some locales including politically. These are people openly antagonistic towards America and Americans. Their loyalty is abroad and they’re open about it. And a huge number aren’t here legally.
No matter how many times the news shows deranged Minneapolis lesbians saying otherwise, the majority of Americans just want to have a safe community to raise their kids and support their family. And won’t really be upset by whatever it takes to do that.
@echo @sun
Anyway, I got distracted. When I was growing up we had a lot of immigrant friends. Iranian. Mexican. Czech. A spattering of Asians across the board. They’d all come here just like the rest of us with the same goals. To be part of their community where they were raising their kids and making a living. Nobody was mad because you married a Japanese woman when you were there in the navy and have happa kids. Nobody cared that your family fled the Iranian revolution or came to work hard in America from a Mexico and were still working on fluency in English.
They did care if you did it lawfully.
Immigration now is a combination of non-assimilation, cultural carve outs, and in some cases takeovers. Many aren’t leaning English or are trying to ethnically take over some locales including politically. These are people openly antagonistic towards America and Americans. Their loyalty is abroad and they’re open about it. And a huge number aren’t here legally.
No matter how many times the news shows deranged Minneapolis lesbians saying otherwise, the majority of Americans just want to have a safe community to raise their kids and support their family. And won’t really be upset by whatever it takes to do that.
@echo @sun
@sun
Only because Americans are bastard mutts. I certainly am. I descend from about ten distinct immigrants from different nations and one or more American tribe. It would be difficult to find that very Italian in Italy but it’s enough for the Italian-American in me to get along with other Americans, Italian or otherwise. Same for my Slovak, my Swedish, etc.
@echo
Only because Americans are bastard mutts. I certainly am. I descend from about ten distinct immigrants from different nations and one or more American tribe. It would be difficult to find that very Italian in Italy but it’s enough for the Italian-American in me to get along with other Americans, Italian or otherwise. Same for my Slovak, my Swedish, etc.
@echo