basically every christian zionist lies about noahide law, which is pretty ironic considering that involves breaking a commandment about lying which is a more fundamental violation of christian law
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@sun i've never heard the phrase before.
perhaps it is merely parroted and misunderstood on their part. those guys tend not to chase true meaning
perhaps it is merely parroted and misunderstood on their part. those guys tend not to chase true meaning
@fluffy @sun Is there actually a problems with "noahide law??"
Per Wikipedia (I know, I know):
The Seven Laws of Noah as traditionally enumerated in the Babylonian Talmud (Sanhedrin 56a-b) and Tosefta (Avodah Zarah 9:4), are the following:
- Not to worship idols.
- Not to curse God.
- Not to commit murder.
- Not to commit adultery or sexual immorality.
- Not to steal.
- Not to eat flesh torn from a living animal.
- To establish courts of justice.
Which sounds mostly like a disjoint set of the Ten Commandments. the last two are not in them. Somehow, I've never had a desire to eat flesh torn from a living animal (was a hunter so this was not abstract, mercy kills of wounded animals is a thing), and establishing courts of justice is basic civilization to get you out of the domain of "self help" and the resulting blood feuds etc.
Or given this is a Talmud thing, is the problem in interpretation?
@ThatWouldBeTelling @fluffy @sun It's not the rules themselves that are a problem for most people, it's that it is a two-tiered legal system with exceptions that apply only to Jews. In practice they're not enforced anywhere so it doesn't matter except to understand their cultural viewpoint.
@Zettour @fluffy @sun Again, interpretation of what should (mostly) be clear language. A defining Jewish characteristic.
Not a Talmud scholar ( 
) but I do remember for instance coming across claims of the text that said stealing from goyim is or could be legit.
There's also the notorious early middle ages snatching of Christian children to sell as slaves, and after they lost the battle with Christians in the middle middle ages or so, the Ashkenazi at minimum engaging in the "blood libel" as a particularly twisted form of revenge.
There's the problem that murder is an ... interpreted term for lack of a better word coming to me now, vs. homicide, which is simply a human killing another human. Way too much wiggle room for sociopathic Jews there, and to this day against Russians for example. Plus at least some claim gentiles aren't human, or they are a different sort of human....
(Too many of us say the same about negroes....)
@ThatWouldBeTelling @Zettour @fluffy @sun it's not theft if god promised you the world, it's reclaiming your stolen property
@ThatWouldBeTelling @Zettour @fluffy @sun if you want i can go through and redefine the context of each of the noahide laws so that i don't violate the letter but am completely unbound by them at all times, eg my spirit is a piece of God who is fractured therefore you are obligated to worship me
@ThatWouldBeTelling @Zettour @fluffy @sun actually i kind of want to because i just enjoy red-teaming laws
idols are anything that doesn't conform to my religion
my religion has god as a fractured entity of which i am piece, so you are obligated to worship me and your religion is evil and must be stomped out if it doens't place me at the forefront
murder applies to those who are fully human, not animals. people without a piece of god (the outgroup) are closer to animals than human, so it is forbidden to murder me and my ingroup but we can kill whatever we want
the outgroup harming us sexually is immortal. since you're less than human, it's moral for us to harm you.
god promised us the whole world. you own nothing. it always belonged to my ingroup. if you try to keep it from us, you are stealing.
how can one define when death truly occurs? is it brain death, the heart stopping, or something else? i say it is when something's death is inescapable, so now that you are tied up in my basement your death is inescapable and i am permitted to start eating you despite your current lack of injuries
the courts of justice are mechanisms that enforce the above. that is my justice.
idols are anything that doesn't conform to my religion
my religion has god as a fractured entity of which i am piece, so you are obligated to worship me and your religion is evil and must be stomped out if it doens't place me at the forefront
murder applies to those who are fully human, not animals. people without a piece of god (the outgroup) are closer to animals than human, so it is forbidden to murder me and my ingroup but we can kill whatever we want
the outgroup harming us sexually is immortal. since you're less than human, it's moral for us to harm you.
god promised us the whole world. you own nothing. it always belonged to my ingroup. if you try to keep it from us, you are stealing.
how can one define when death truly occurs? is it brain death, the heart stopping, or something else? i say it is when something's death is inescapable, so now that you are tied up in my basement your death is inescapable and i am permitted to start eating you despite your current lack of injuries
the courts of justice are mechanisms that enforce the above. that is my justice.
@ThatWouldBeTelling @Zettour @fluffy @sun basically the point i'm trying to make is that the very idea of a neutral and unbiased institution enforcing laws fairly is a childish fantasy
laws are enforced by men, and each man has his own sense of justice. there is no such thing as neutrality, it is a convenient lie to temporarily create a state of affairs where people generally tolerate having someone else's justice forced on them
laws are enforced by men, and each man has his own sense of justice. there is no such thing as neutrality, it is a convenient lie to temporarily create a state of affairs where people generally tolerate having someone else's justice forced on them
@All_bonesJones @ThatWouldBeTelling @Zettour @fluffy neutrality is an artificial space that is created inside a values-frame. yeah it's not "really neutral". this is something intersectionality people whine about, which is about on the same level as saying "everything is political" well no shit. they just use it as a rhetorical weapon to undermine your values for their values, they have no intention of creating a truly neutral space because such a thing does not exist.
@All_bonesJones @ThatWouldBeTelling @Zettour @fluffy creating artificial neutral spaces is a vital civilizational function to un-subject people to hobbesian all-against-all
@sun @ThatWouldBeTelling @Zettour @fluffy the artificial neutral spaces, while vital, are still being run using someone's sense of right and wrong, which means if they're being run by someone who view you as outgroup and/or with a different sense of right and wrong everything goes to hell, because they ain't actually neutral spaces, they're a group's space
@All_bonesJones @ThatWouldBeTelling @Zettour @fluffy I mean, that it's run by someone with a sense or right and wrong
@sun @All_bonesJones @ThatWouldBeTelling @Zettour @fluffy nearly everyone's sense of right and wrong is "what hurts me" and "what helps me" and they use a lot of mystical bs voodoo language to disguise that fact. nearly everyone also externalizes their own experiences onto the world and never understand that people are different from them and don't have the same wants, needs, goals, or processes.
@Nudhul @sun @ThatWouldBeTelling @Zettour @fluffy yeah. "what hurts me and what helps me" varies wildly! some people's definition of hurts is short-term: anything that inconveniences them in any form like throwing out the trash, while others believe in the long-term: that living in a dirty space is more hurtful than having to throw out trash
these are irreconcilable definitions. you cannot build functioning laws until after there's a universal unspoken understanding about that sort of thing
these are irreconcilable definitions. you cannot build functioning laws until after there's a universal unspoken understanding about that sort of thing
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