This is the type of person who would bring a fed to the secret meeting because he "seemed like a good guy." ππ
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@Humpleupagus Wait, was this not copypasta @mushroom_soup ?
@adequate @Humpleupagus Look idk how to tell this to you but Christopher Nolan is a good filmmaker
*was
@penguin @Humpleupagus @adequate Have you seen the movie?
no, I don't support movies with niggers and troons
@penguin @Humpleupagus @adequate There are movies with fully white casts that are bad. If you don't like the casting that's fine but that's different than saying the movie is bad. Actually see it before saying that. I'm not going to say a song is bad if I haven't actually heard it before
> There are other bad movies, so you should see this bad movie too.
Woman logic.
Woman logic.
@Humpleupagus @penguin @adequate My point is that the diversity of a movie's cast isn't a correlation to how good or bad it is. If you haven't seen the movie then you objectively don't know whether it's good or bad
The fundamental problem is that it's a mockery of the source material. Greeks aren't black. You mean to tell me of all the Hollywood actresses, you couldn't cast a white blonde girl to play Helen of Troy? It had to be some ugly animal?
@JeffGrimesArt @Humpleupagus @penguin @adequate The source material directly calls Odysseus 'black skinned' multiple times and I honestly think Matt Damon was the least strong casting choice
@mushroom_soup @Humpleupagus @penguin @JeffGrimesArt @adequate it also says helen had white skin but neither of them were african
She wanted to use an argument that was convenient for her. Don't ruin her redditor logic with facts.
>it says he's black skinned
This is same as when Black Hebrew Israelites point to the Song of Solomon where he laments he works in the field for nought beneath the harsh sun and his skin and bones are black and they go
This is same as when Black Hebrew Israelites point to the Song of Solomon where he laments he works in the field for nought beneath the harsh sun and his skin and bones are black and they go
@Ash_Kvetchum @Humpleupagus @penguin @JeffGrimesArt @adequate @mushroom_soup there's already scholarly writing on colors being "weird" to contemporary readers in the oddysey, homer also says the ocean is the color of wine among other weird descriptions. color names, even the concepts aren't reliable. in classical chinese there's a color mentioned that doesn't even exist anymore and it's not even agreed what the god damn color is, the best theory so far is the concept of "color" was not even the same to the classical chinese and you could have colors that don't fit on a modern color wheel. I can't explain it better just that simplistic white and black to describe skin color and mapping it to modern american skin color is an insane argument
@sun @Ash_Kvetchum @Humpleupagus @JeffGrimesArt @adequate @mushroom_soup @penguin wine is dark, bronze is bright from the reflection. classical ι is dark and cool. it's not that hard
@hakui @Humpleupagus @penguin @Ash_Kvetchum @JeffGrimesArt @adequate @mushroom_soup you just picked out one popular definition from the writing that not remotely everyone agrees with
@sun @Ash_Kvetchum @Humpleupagus @JeffGrimesArt @adequate @mushroom_soup @penguin >not remotely everyone agrees with
those people have shit qualia and can be ignored
those people have shit qualia and can be ignored
@hakui @Humpleupagus @penguin @Ash_Kvetchum @JeffGrimesArt @adequate @mushroom_soup just saying nobody can find even a single classical chinese source that backs up the claim
@sun @Ash_Kvetchum @Humpleupagus @JeffGrimesArt @adequate @mushroom_soup @penguin KoΕ jaki jest, kaΕΌdy widzi
>if there were horses in poland why couldn't anyone define it?????
@hakui horses don't generate any weird contradictory controversy because they didn't line up with modern definition of horses
@sun we know what things described as classical ι looks like, we know it's a different color space from what modern ι covers, what's the controversy
@hakui its not even color space but it's also never been defined contemporaneously with the usage. that is the issue. the way we got to your proposal is by trying desperately to find things in common with each of the things described by the color and it's our best guess
@hakui in 2026 you can find color wheels and other direct descriptions of colors. I don't really expect something that detailed from ancient china but people did catalog stuff like this even just accidentally
@sun chemical red inks fade in a matter of decades, but sure let's find a color wheel made using natural pigments from 3000 years ago
@hakui your entire argument falls back on some people don't have qualia, its a good joke but that's it, the entire argument is just proving the point that you're retarded if you took black and white from an old poem in a different language to mean skin color in a modern sense
@sun i don't care about the OP about skin color, i jumped in because you were going "look homer called the sea wine-colored and the sky bronze, his senses must have been all tripped up"
@hakui I didn't say it's unknowable or he was seeing weird colors that modern humans can't see. I'm sorry I didn't go into exquisite detail explaining why exactly you can't just use color names from something thousands of years old and have it match anything
@sun they map to different things across time but they still match to concrete things, it's just different sets of things
keeping the temporal context in mind is the point
it's like reading a book from 150 years ago and going "ha ha they eat dinner at noon, their day ends so early" when dinner meant different things back then
keeping the temporal context in mind is the point
it's like reading a book from 150 years ago and going "ha ha they eat dinner at noon, their day ends so early" when dinner meant different things back then
@hakui yeah that's what I'm saying!
@sun yeah i wasn't disagreeing with you!! but somehow you had to say "no ackshually nobody knows what ι is"
@hakui like I said what you suggested is just one popular theory for how to interpret it and not even chinese scholars agree, chinese understanding of it didn't even exactly retain it which is an interesting fact on its own
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@hakui there are just items obviously that are still called with that color and you just know you're supposed to call those items that color
@sun yes exactly, the list of items is already there, if those disagreeing scholars could bring up counterexample items then maybe they might actually deserve some attention
@hakui ok you ask someone why items x y and z are all that color and they're not sure, they just know they're called that but if you gave them an item off the list of what they know, they can't pick it out. it's been documented and I found papers arguing about it as recently as the 2010s, it really is not settled.
@sun >you ask someone why items x y and z are all that color and they're not sure
yes that person has skill issue. x y and z are all that color because they're all desaturated, dark, and cool instead of bright and warm. that's what i've said in my first reply
yes that person has skill issue. x y and z are all that color because they're all desaturated, dark, and cool instead of bright and warm. that's what i've said in my first reply
@hakui the papers focus on common counterexamples that don't match that.
@sun ok name some
@hakui multiple plant description terms that seem to be a reference to vitality, may be connected to etymology of the pictograph where an earlier version of it incorporated η, in that context meant the opposite of subdued.
@hakui I mean that's the theory, because it described things that don't match the other color description, that's why there's argument about it
@hakui incidentally I asked Claude separately if native chinese language scholarship was as divided as anglophone and it said there were actually more disputed theories in Chinese