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@penguin @Humpleupagus @adequate There are movies with fully white casts that are bad. If you don't like the casting that's fine but that's different than saying the movie is bad. Actually see it before saying that. I'm not going to say a song is bad if I haven't actually heard it before
> There are other bad movies, so you should see this bad movie too.
Woman logic.
Woman logic.
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@Humpleupagus @penguin @adequate My point is that the diversity of a movie's cast isn't a correlation to how good or bad it is. If you haven't seen the movie then you objectively don't know whether it's good or bad
The fundamental problem is that it's a mockery of the source material. Greeks aren't black. You mean to tell me of all the Hollywood actresses, you couldn't cast a white blonde girl to play Helen of Troy? It had to be some ugly animal?
> Real artists do exactly what Hollywood DEI guidelines require when making their works.
@JeffGrimesArt @Humpleupagus @penguin @adequate The source material directly calls Odysseus 'black skinned' multiple times and I honestly think Matt Damon was the least strong casting choice
@mushroom_soup @Humpleupagus @penguin @JeffGrimesArt @adequate it also says helen had white skin but neither of them were african
She wanted to use an argument that was convenient for her. Don't ruin her redditor logic with facts.
@Humpleupagus @penguin @JeffGrimesArt @adequate @mushroom_soup I don't know what the right position is because if they weren't white then why cast white actors so it's not exactly arbtitrary, it's bounded but somehow its too far for some to cast a black person and for others it isn't. the historical argument of blacks in greece is bullshit, there were blacks all over the classical world and europe, but not enough that people fucking confused them with people that lived in the area. give me a fucking break
I don't watch movies driven by DEI requirements of the award makers. Sorry.
Do you buy a computer because of race?
See you have the whole situation ass backwards. I'm not the one who made it about race. The producer did. The Oscars did. The academy did. That put race over art.
Do you buy a computer because of race?
See you have the whole situation ass backwards. I'm not the one who made it about race. The producer did. The Oscars did. The academy did. That put race over art.
@Humpleupagus @penguin @JeffGrimesArt @adequate @mushroom_soup is it really known this is what happened, he could have just done it as bait
>it says he's black skinned
This is same as when Black Hebrew Israelites point to the Song of Solomon where he laments he works in the field for nought beneath the harsh sun and his skin and bones are black and they go
This is same as when Black Hebrew Israelites point to the Song of Solomon where he laments he works in the field for nought beneath the harsh sun and his skin and bones are black and they go
@Ash_Kvetchum @Humpleupagus @penguin @JeffGrimesArt @adequate @mushroom_soup there's already scholarly writing on colors being "weird" to contemporary readers in the oddysey, homer also says the ocean is the color of wine among other weird descriptions. color names, even the concepts aren't reliable. in classical chinese there's a color mentioned that doesn't even exist anymore and it's not even agreed what the god damn color is, the best theory so far is the concept of "color" was not even the same to the classical chinese and you could have colors that don't fit on a modern color wheel. I can't explain it better just that simplistic white and black to describe skin color and mapping it to modern american skin color is an insane argument
@sun @Ash_Kvetchum @Humpleupagus @JeffGrimesArt @adequate @mushroom_soup @penguin wine is dark, bronze is bright from the reflection. classical ι is dark and cool. it's not that hard
@hakui @Humpleupagus @penguin @Ash_Kvetchum @JeffGrimesArt @adequate @mushroom_soup you just picked out one popular definition from the writing that not remotely everyone agrees with
@sun @Ash_Kvetchum @Humpleupagus @JeffGrimesArt @adequate @mushroom_soup @penguin >not remotely everyone agrees with
those people have shit qualia and can be ignored
those people have shit qualia and can be ignored
@hakui @Humpleupagus @penguin @Ash_Kvetchum @JeffGrimesArt @adequate @mushroom_soup just saying nobody can find even a single classical chinese source that backs up the claim
@sun @Ash_Kvetchum @Humpleupagus @JeffGrimesArt @adequate @mushroom_soup @penguin KoΕ jaki jest, kaΕΌdy widzi
>if there were horses in poland why couldn't anyone define it?????
@hakui horses don't generate any weird contradictory controversy because they didn't line up with modern definition of horses
@sun we know what things described as classical ι looks like, we know it's a different color space from what modern ι covers, what's the controversy
@hakui its not even color space but it's also never been defined contemporaneously with the usage. that is the issue. the way we got to your proposal is by trying desperately to find things in common with each of the things described by the color and it's our best guess
@hakui in 2026 you can find color wheels and other direct descriptions of colors. I don't really expect something that detailed from ancient china but people did catalog stuff like this even just accidentally
@sun chemical red inks fade in a matter of decades, but sure let's find a color wheel made using natural pigments from 3000 years ago
@hakui your entire argument falls back on some people don't have qualia, its a good joke but that's it, the entire argument is just proving the point that you're retarded if you took black and white from an old poem in a different language to mean skin color in a modern sense
@sun i don't care about the OP about skin color, i jumped in because you were going "look homer called the sea wine-colored and the sky bronze, his senses must have been all tripped up"
@hakui I didn't say it's unknowable or he was seeing weird colors that modern humans can't see. I'm sorry I didn't go into exquisite detail explaining why exactly you can't just use color names from something thousands of years old and have it match anything
@sun they map to different things across time but they still match to concrete things, it's just different sets of things
keeping the temporal context in mind is the point
it's like reading a book from 150 years ago and going "ha ha they eat dinner at noon, their day ends so early" when dinner meant different things back then
keeping the temporal context in mind is the point
it's like reading a book from 150 years ago and going "ha ha they eat dinner at noon, their day ends so early" when dinner meant different things back then
@hakui yeah that's what I'm saying!
@sun yeah i wasn't disagreeing with you!! but somehow you had to say "no ackshually nobody knows what ι is"
@hakui like I said what you suggested is just one popular theory for how to interpret it and not even chinese scholars agree, chinese understanding of it didn't even exactly retain it which is an interesting fact on its own
@hakui there are just items obviously that are still called with that color and you just know you're supposed to call those items that color
@sun yes exactly, the list of items is already there, if those disagreeing scholars could bring up counterexample items then maybe they might actually deserve some attention
@hakui ok you ask someone why items x y and z are all that color and they're not sure, they just know they're called that but if you gave them an item off the list of what they know, they can't pick it out. it's been documented and I found papers arguing about it as recently as the 2010s, it really is not settled.
@sun >you ask someone why items x y and z are all that color and they're not sure
yes that person has skill issue. x y and z are all that color because they're all desaturated, dark, and cool instead of bright and warm. that's what i've said in my first reply
yes that person has skill issue. x y and z are all that color because they're all desaturated, dark, and cool instead of bright and warm. that's what i've said in my first reply
@hakui the papers focus on common counterexamples that don't match that.
@sun ok name some
@hakui multiple plant description terms that seem to be a reference to vitality, may be connected to etymology of the pictograph where an earlier version of it incorporated η, in that context meant the opposite of subdued.
@hakui I mean that's the theory, because it described things that don't match the other color description, that's why there's argument about it
@hakui incidentally I asked Claude separately if native chinese language scholarship was as divided as anglophone and it said there were actually more disputed theories in Chinese
@sun >ιεΉ΄ are flesh-colored, obviously ι is referring to a different color range
@sun >find things in common with each of the things described
yes that's how language works
if you've never seen a dog in your life you eventually learn what are dogs by seeing what people call "dogs", even if the breeds look absolutely different
yes that's how language works
if you've never seen a dog in your life you eventually learn what are dogs by seeing what people call "dogs", even if the breeds look absolutely different
@hakui medieval writing tried to describe animals from other places this way and it would have been better to just describe the features of the animal than say it was a dog
@sun @Humpleupagus @penguin @Ash_Kvetchum @JeffGrimesArt @adequate @mushroom_soup
Colors are all over the place because they referenced its value instead of its hue.
Wine color meant cloudy. Black meant dark/tan. White means bright/pale.
They used to teach this in public school back in my day.
Colors are all over the place because they referenced its value instead of its hue.
Wine color meant cloudy. Black meant dark/tan. White means bright/pale.
They used to teach this in public school back in my day.
@rude @Humpleupagus @penguin @Ash_Kvetchum @JeffGrimesArt @adequate @mushroom_soup my point is it doesn't map to modern usage
I was nodding to the idea that "black skinned" for a man who has been away from home, out in the field of his adventure, is the same physical/time spent desciptor as the "black skinned" descriptor for a man having worked the field. White guy outside, hard at it, darkened to leather by the sun and weather.
@JeffGrimesArt @Humpleupagus @penguin @adequate @mushroom_soup they aren't seeing the odyssey because it's bad.
We aren't seening it because it's deliberately subversive to western culture.
We are not the same.
We aren't seening it because it's deliberately subversive to western culture.
We are not the same.
My point is that women don't understand the difference between anecdotes and probability.
You could have left out diversity. You think casting choices don't matter. Casting goes beyond just "acting." You have to believe a character belongs in the roll. Plenty of people can deliver lines as well or better than Ellen Page or Zendaya.
I won't deny the jews put their top Shabbos goy to make a technically good summer movie. Once it has that stench of nigger faggotry meh it just loses appeal with me.
Someone tried to use this same argument to get me to watch Jurassic World Fallen Kingdom.
I may not know for sure whether Jurassic Park 5 is good or bad, but the 99.999% certainty is enough. That's even taking into consideration that I didn't hate the 4th movie.
I may not know for sure whether Jurassic Park 5 is good or bad, but the 99.999% certainty is enough. That's even taking into consideration that I didn't hate the 4th movie.