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Phantasm

Phantasm

@phnt@fluffytail.org remote
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Once you deal with taking care of computers for normies, all the BS Microsoft does to force down updates on users makes instantly sense.

Automatic updates? No brainer, otherwise they will never install them.
A limit on how far you can delay installing updates? Again, they will never get installed if you can just say "ask me later" all the time.
Removal of Shutdown/Reboot without installing updates? They will never be applied even when they are scheduled to install.

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Phantasm

Phantasm

@phnt@fluffytail.org remote
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The only solution is to give a "power user" option for administrators on clean install that disables all the crap for people that know how to use computers. It must not be changed after install, or user account creation since they will do that once rumors of the mythical power user mode come to light. Or allow a "power user" administrator to change it afterwards for other users.

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Phantasm

Phantasm

@phnt@fluffytail.org remote
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Tangent: To my knowledge Linux DEs not supporting the whole "administrator with root privileges is another user" that Windows has is a large mistake. If I install Mint for someone that just opens a browser once a week and enable automatic updates for them, they shouldn't be allowed privilege escalation rights, but instead a separate "admin" user (me) should have those (with a different user password of course).

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Pilgrim reposted
Phantasm

Phantasm

@phnt@fluffytail.org remote
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Tangent: To my knowledge Linux DEs not supporting the whole "administrator with root privileges is another user" that Windows has is a large mistake. If I install Mint for someone that just opens a browser once a week and enable automatic updates for them, they shouldn't be allowed privilege escalation rights, but instead a separate "admin" user (me) should have those (with a different user password of course).

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Pilgrim

Pilgrim

@pwm@darkdork.dev remote
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@phnt the other day I went to visit my folks.
My mom (who I set up on mint > a year ago) reported that her desktop was acting strange, the start menu wouldn't open.
I go, check the uptime, and it hasn't been restarted for like, 6 months. Some auto updates had run but others were pending a restart.
I was like, "mom, you gotta turn it all the way off once in a while, and install updates and restart if it asks"
I went on to explain that humanity hasn't figured out how to let a computer program run forever without intervention (little white lie but broadly true).
Replying to @benis_redux@cawfee.club
Phantasm

Phantasm

@phnt@fluffytail.org remote
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@benis_redux The dialogs don't allow you to change the user you are authenticating with. They all use the logged in user with the logged in users password. When an unprivileged user on Windows triggers a UAC prompt, it asks for the password of the administrator, not the unprivileged user.
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Phantasm

Phantasm

@phnt@fluffytail.org remote
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@sun Yes, and anybody that wants to use Windows seriously wipes the OEM install on their laptop anyway right after they get it. (Or at least I do.) So a checkbox there wouldn't even be annoying to those that are supposed to use it.
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pesekcuy

pesekcuy

@pesekcuy@stereophonic.space remote
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@phnt If my parents had any use case of a desktop/laptop computer I'd just pirate windows ltsc for theirs and leave it at default settings. Best adversarial efforts they'd ever get are mere scam whatsapp calls anyway (which they fortunately are already well aware of)
Replying to @pwm@darkdork.dev
Phantasm

Phantasm

@phnt@fluffytail.org remote
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@pwm I don't know anybody besides my boomer parents with the desktop PC I built for them and power users, that actually shuts down their computers. They all just walk away from their laptops/desktops and let it go to sleep and hibernate later. The only reason my boomer parents do it is because they really care about savings and not wasting electricity to the point of being really annoying with it.
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Phantasm

Phantasm

@phnt@fluffytail.org remote
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@pwm
>not wasting electricity to the point of being really annoying with it

That includes toggling off the PSU AC switch. Had to replace that switch two times already in 5 years, because surprise, it is not made to be toggled multiple times a week for years.
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GNU/翠星石

GNU/翠星石

@Suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com remote
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@phnt @benis_redux >When an unprivileged user on Windows triggers a UAC prompt, it asks for the password of the administrator, not the unprivileged user.
`su «user»` asks the password of the relevant user (which can be privileged), not the unprivileged user.

Just alias `sudo` to `su root -c` and change /etc/pam.d/su to; "auth required pam_wheel.so group=su use_uid" if `sudo «command»` is the only use case - all users in the su group can run something as root, if they know the root password.

GNU's functionality where you can login as whatever user via `su` from root, is 1 million times superior, as you can actually install, fix and test things for the user, without needing to know their password.
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:VD15_0::VD15_1::VD15_2::VD15_3::VD15_4::VD15_5::VD15_6::VD15_7:

:VD15_0::VD15_1::VD15_2::VD15_3::VD15_4::VD15_5::VD15_6::VD15_7:

@VD15@pl.valkyrie.world remote
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@phnt One must accept that the simplest answer to the normie question is to simply kill them. You can dumb things down for them all you want, but all the handcuffs and guardrails in the world shall not save them from their own incompetence. For they will always make a bigger idiot, with bigger feet with which to shoot himself.

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PalePimp

PalePimp

@PalePimp@poa.st remote
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@phnt I work in IT, and over the years there have been times where upgrading Windows broke some software or system and the economic cost was in the hundreds of thousands, not to speak of MS breaking something, refusing to fix it, and providing installing an older windows release full of vulnerabilities as a solution.

And in my experience the worst at not deploying patches or updates are generally developers.
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