remember how before chat gippity came along it was common for people to say constraints make better products, usually with regard to old games or movies before CGI
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@deprecated_ii Silver lining, removing the constraint of "every creative choice must be made by committee" might open us up to a lot more experimental stuff
@Kazak @deprecated_ii Counterpoint: most people who are going to "benefit" from this are not particularly creative and nothing new is really offered in the area of artistic freedom that the internet doesn't already provide. Due to direct funding a lot of the "committee" is already dead for independent artists who have an audience.
@wgiwf @deprecated_ii What do you mean by "nothing new"? AI has unquestionably made solo video production and solo game development like 100x easier. The scope for what's viable for solo projects is way broader now than it's ever been
@Kazak @wgiwf there's a saying that art comes from struggle (or whatever those goobers say), and I used to laugh at it because I thought it meant you had to be one of those performatively tortured starving artist types to make "real" art. like pain itself was somehow an essential part of the work
but I have a new appreciation for the saying now. it's not about suffering, it's about putting in the work to develop skills, to learn the craft and the body of work relevant to what you want to do, and that journey turning you into someone who can make good art
with AI, almost nobody will put in the work anymore. they can jump straight to an outcome, but the outcome will be shit
it's climbing a mountain vs having a helicopter drop you off at the top
but I have a new appreciation for the saying now. it's not about suffering, it's about putting in the work to develop skills, to learn the craft and the body of work relevant to what you want to do, and that journey turning you into someone who can make good art
with AI, almost nobody will put in the work anymore. they can jump straight to an outcome, but the outcome will be shit
it's climbing a mountain vs having a helicopter drop you off at the top
AI isn't stopping anyone from drawing and being poor while doing it.
@Humpleupagus @wgiwf @Kazak there is not a literal barrier in place to stop them. that doesn't change the fact that many people will now CHOOSE to slap the easy button rather than struggle through problems. and as a result, they will not learn and grow
Those people are losers anyway. Most artists are basically insufferable, tranny brained faggots — "i'm important because Im an artist and you have to recognize that". Is that really what you want to support?
As I see it your argument is.... its going to discourage people from pursuing a craft for the wrong reasons and that's bad.
Sorry, AI actually makes art more authentic, no only for the reason I stated above, but because it also brings creation closer to the self for those who don't paint or draw. They can basically commission a work and even refine it to their imagining. The classic artist is far more distant from the self.
All this AI hate is just fuckimg dumb. It's a bunch of NPCs regurgitating talking points without really thinking through the existential relationship between the self and it's ability to create. AI enhances that, and doesn't otherwise prohibit classic methods.
As I see it your argument is.... its going to discourage people from pursuing a craft for the wrong reasons and that's bad.
Sorry, AI actually makes art more authentic, no only for the reason I stated above, but because it also brings creation closer to the self for those who don't paint or draw. They can basically commission a work and even refine it to their imagining. The classic artist is far more distant from the self.
All this AI hate is just fuckimg dumb. It's a bunch of NPCs regurgitating talking points without really thinking through the existential relationship between the self and it's ability to create. AI enhances that, and doesn't otherwise prohibit classic methods.
@Humpleupagus @wgiwf @Kazak Your first paragraph is the honest one. You don't care about this because you identify artists as the enemy, as do lots of other people around here. You fail to recognize that it isn't going to just fuck up art, it's going to fuck up everything else too, from engineering to medicine.
Don't be a faggot. I spend hours a day writing and mixing music, not for you or anyone else. I don't need to alienate my works. I like making things and experimenting when doing it. I do it for me. AI isn't stopping me. Rather it helps me. It organizes sample banks. It assists in calculations and creating fx chains, etc.
If someone else wants to use AI to make a song, that's cool. Go for it. Maybe it will sound like shit, maybe it will be novel, maybe an accident will occur and one that gives us new ideas.
If someone else wants to use AI to make a song, that's cool. Go for it. Maybe it will sound like shit, maybe it will be novel, maybe an accident will occur and one that gives us new ideas.
@Humpleupagus @deprecated_ii @wgiwf @Kazak
So, AI as a tool helps you work in mixing music after having 10+¿? years of experience and refinement in doing. You know what you are asking it to do, and have a level of confidence going into it.
Do you think a novice grabbing said same AI tool day 1 can reliably work up to the competence level you built up without any AI assistance?
So, AI as a tool helps you work in mixing music after having 10+¿? years of experience and refinement in doing. You know what you are asking it to do, and have a level of confidence going into it.
Do you think a novice grabbing said same AI tool day 1 can reliably work up to the competence level you built up without any AI assistance?
First, I want to thank you for recognizing the difference between having AI do everything for me, and using it as a tool, e.g. a calculator or file organizer, figuring out techniques, recommending I search particular banks or look at particular plugins for certain types of initial samples / sounds (I resample a lot) and other issues, including software bugs, to save me time. Other than file organization and searching (I have 20 million samples / loops, a myriad of vst synths and other instruments, and do design from scratch), use is sparse, but it does help at times.
Nonetheless, as to the novice, I think it could depend on the intelligence of that person. AI can be educational, much like having a teacher. "Hey gpt, what are some classic methods to create a house bass"? (The novice would spend more time watching a youtube video to get the same answer or worse tracking down a live producer). So if used right, it can facilitate learning. If not, then not. But the same can be said of most tools. We don't say someone is slop if they use a Phillips screw instead of a nail or glue. The flathead users can get fucked though.
I think the question raised by D implicitly is what is the motivation to create. My point is that AI does eliminate a lot of motivation that I find improper, motivation often leads men down bad roads, like a longing for fame or recognition. Those things are fine if given, but seeking them is a separate issue. The real motivation should be just to make shit.
With this in mind, I think AI eliminates markets in art, but also brings creation / art closer to the self. I can't draw at all. My wife paints, draws etc, hours a day. She makes art for her. If I need a picture, I'll use AI. I leave her to her thing. It's her work, not mine.
Nonetheless, as to the novice, I think it could depend on the intelligence of that person. AI can be educational, much like having a teacher. "Hey gpt, what are some classic methods to create a house bass"? (The novice would spend more time watching a youtube video to get the same answer or worse tracking down a live producer). So if used right, it can facilitate learning. If not, then not. But the same can be said of most tools. We don't say someone is slop if they use a Phillips screw instead of a nail or glue. The flathead users can get fucked though.
I think the question raised by D implicitly is what is the motivation to create. My point is that AI does eliminate a lot of motivation that I find improper, motivation often leads men down bad roads, like a longing for fame or recognition. Those things are fine if given, but seeking them is a separate issue. The real motivation should be just to make shit.
With this in mind, I think AI eliminates markets in art, but also brings creation / art closer to the self. I can't draw at all. My wife paints, draws etc, hours a day. She makes art for her. If I need a picture, I'll use AI. I leave her to her thing. It's her work, not mine.
@Humpleupagus @deprecated_ii @wgiwf @Kazak
AI amplifies the quality of the user is a good perspective for individual use cases. If I thought I could use AI without atrophying my thinking circuits it would be to learn about things easier. I've had a bad reader's block for awhile.
It gets muddied by corporations shoving AI into everything though, and trying to use it as a magic tool to replace workers or amplify productivity. A whole lot of mess and proper slop to be criticized from that application.
I'd wager Mainframe AI dies like a dotcom bubbles, and its just motivated individuals using self-hosted LLMs in the future.
AI amplifies the quality of the user is a good perspective for individual use cases. If I thought I could use AI without atrophying my thinking circuits it would be to learn about things easier. I've had a bad reader's block for awhile.
It gets muddied by corporations shoving AI into everything though, and trying to use it as a magic tool to replace workers or amplify productivity. A whole lot of mess and proper slop to be criticized from that application.
I'd wager Mainframe AI dies like a dotcom bubbles, and its just motivated individuals using self-hosted LLMs in the future.
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There are a lot of problems with AI. And the corporate control and censorship is probably the biggest issue. But I think you're right, that market collapses because they're operating above cost in the capital phase with no realistic plan for return.
I'm just not convinced motivation is a real problem. I think a lot people enjoy making art. It's not going away. For example, once everyone was able to afford what would have been a $20 million studio in the 1980s on their laptop for a few thousand dollars with simple gear and plugins, and the market was flooded with music, some of which is good, some not, people still made music despite saturation. And people will still learn to paint and draw or make music despite AI, because we're human. It's what we do.
And writers block is real. Unlike me, who uses AI to draft initial drafts of letters in my practice, I'm not sure how AI can be employed in a creative context re writing. Perhaps by not having it draft the underlying text, that would be dumb, but rather using it to explore themes, character development, and story line?
I'm just not convinced motivation is a real problem. I think a lot people enjoy making art. It's not going away. For example, once everyone was able to afford what would have been a $20 million studio in the 1980s on their laptop for a few thousand dollars with simple gear and plugins, and the market was flooded with music, some of which is good, some not, people still made music despite saturation. And people will still learn to paint and draw or make music despite AI, because we're human. It's what we do.
And writers block is real. Unlike me, who uses AI to draft initial drafts of letters in my practice, I'm not sure how AI can be employed in a creative context re writing. Perhaps by not having it draft the underlying text, that would be dumb, but rather using it to explore themes, character development, and story line?
@Humpleupagus @deprecated_ii @wgiwf @Kazak @dassauerkraut I have written some stuff and I used AI to help me research topics and as a blunt "is this too cliched" check rather thann a positive "write this for me" help
I've used it for something similar. I watch a lot of horror / horror adjacent movies. I have used to to explore themes. Like the movie "We are Wolves" and how the title and wolf behavior related to the film, including whether Fenix was really an emergent alpha who ran the pack despite appearing to be subdominate.