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@sun both can be enough on their own. But graphics doesnt matter as much imo.
(movies are gakes with shitty gameplay but sometimes great story)
(movies are gakes with shitty gameplay but sometimes great story)
@grillchen I like games with no story
@sun this divides the games-as-literature vs games-as-porn people
@sun sentenced to death on the mobile gacha graveyard
@iamtakingiteasy @lain @cell @sun Half Life without the story is boring and quite mediocre. Just like Doom without the fast paced gameplay.
@phnt @iamtakingiteasy @lain @cell there is a place for games with or without story in gods green earth but we’re being dictated to by people that just want games to be stories with a sprinkling of interactivity and that is so pathetically bleak and limiting for the medium
@sun @iamtakingiteasy @phnt @cell i don't even think that is true, as the story of most of these games is not worth the name. it's 'stuff happening'.
@lain @iamtakingiteasy @phnt @cell the think it's good though, they are just dumb and facile.
incidentally games like doom: theres no story in the fucking game. you know what there is? worldbuilding. worldbuilding can actuall be important in a game where there's no story. in doom you just shoot a bunch of shit up but the world building in doom is top tier
incidentally games like doom: theres no story in the fucking game. you know what there is? worldbuilding. worldbuilding can actuall be important in a game where there's no story. in doom you just shoot a bunch of shit up but the world building in doom is top tier
@sun @iamtakingiteasy @lain @cell My point is that you can have both, but usually not at the same time. Once you try to mix both, it usually ends in an interactive movie whose gameplay sucks and whose story is told via cutscenes longer than the gameplay, which also suck.
Play any modern first person shooter singleplayer made in the last decade meant for masses and you have basically that. An interactive movie.
Play any modern first person shooter singleplayer made in the last decade meant for masses and you have basically that. An interactive movie.
@phnt @iamtakingiteasy @lain @cell this is the so-called ludonarrative dissonance, if you have a bunch of freedom in gameplpay then you can't ram a linear story down someone's gullet.
@sun @iamtakingiteasy @lain @cell You can make it work, half life itself is an example of that to some degree. Most immersive sims as well tell a linear story with near absolute freedom in gameplay. But everyone that did the latter correctly is dead, because it is way too niche of a market.
@phnt @cell @iamtakingiteasy @lain my position has always been that the distinguishing characteristic of the game is interactivity and challenge so these should always be the focal points of game criticism. the story can be important and integral but these are additions.
@phnt @iamtakingiteasy @lain @cell I would say then that if you expected or demanded this you would be a real "game critic" as opposed to somebody that is just a mirror image of the guy that just wants cod games, but instead you want an interactive lesbian story.
@lain @iamtakingiteasy @phnt @cell incidentally have you noticed how many actual movies now are just "stuff happening" lol
the southpark guys used to talk about filmmaking 101 where every scene has to be "this and because this just happened this now happens" but instead people do "and then this happens"
the southpark guys used to talk about filmmaking 101 where every scene has to be "this and because this just happened this now happens" but instead people do "and then this happens"
@iamtakingiteasy @phnt @lain @cell system shock ain't new but its like yeah its better than new games that supposedly were thinking about this idea more.
@sun openTTD has the deepest lore
@sun @iamtakingiteasy @phnt @cell yeah, it's just one thing after the other. not even really plot holes, just 'and then this happened'
@phnt @iamtakingiteasy @cell @sun the strange thing is that during the doom days there used to be things you play for the gameplay, like doom, and thinks you play for the story, like monkey island. but then half life kind of unified it and killed both genres.
@phnt @iamtakingiteasy @lain @cell @sun half-life without the story is still very fun, both 1 and 2. In fact "the story" in 2 is where game grinds into a halt with immersive cut scenes. What half-life has going for is is the worldbuilding, something that is also present in quake but not in doom.
@sun openTTD has the deepest lore
@lain @iamtakingiteasy @phnt @cell I don’t think it killed it it just immediately reached the peak of what you could do with a reasonable budget and team size and not much ended up doing better
@lain @sun @iamtakingiteasy @phnt @cell
How did the ancient dagger have an outline of the recent wreckage forged into its crossbar?
Oh, because you see, the script required it to get to the next plot point.
@sun @phnt @cell @iamtakingiteasy @lain >this is the so-called ludonarrative dissonance
TV Tropes gave it a better name: gameplay and story segregation.
Yes, I just said something nice about TV Tropes of all places.
TV Tropes gave it a better name: gameplay and story segregation.
Yes, I just said something nice about TV Tropes of all places.
@sun i feep like to many games say they have a story but it is countleas of monologues or stuff to read. Cyberpunk 2077 gigs mostly suck in this regard and i skipped a lot of dialogue.
@phnt @iamtakingiteasy @lain @cell @sun >Half-Life without the story is boring and quite mediocre
In my experience, that's because Half-Life's gameplay is ass. I'm only talking about 2 and 1, with the former being bland, rotten ass and the latter just regular ass.
A lot of people seem to agree in spirit, because what I see the most in HL discussions online are lore speculations, roach AI demonstrations and What Could've Been (if Valve was given just a couple more months, years, decades etc.). Not fond memories about guns that didn't do shit unless you played on Easy, bullet sponge upon bullet sponge, cutscenes that totally didn't take you out of the gameplay because you still had control of your character, plinking your toy gun rounds at Playdoh Combine and what have you.
I guess you really can salvage the game by compensating with story, but only to an extent. The gameplay needs to have that zing still. Old imsims are a great example.
In my experience, that's because Half-Life's gameplay is ass. I'm only talking about 2 and 1, with the former being bland, rotten ass and the latter just regular ass.
A lot of people seem to agree in spirit, because what I see the most in HL discussions online are lore speculations, roach AI demonstrations and What Could've Been (if Valve was given just a couple more months, years, decades etc.). Not fond memories about guns that didn't do shit unless you played on Easy, bullet sponge upon bullet sponge, cutscenes that totally didn't take you out of the gameplay because you still had control of your character, plinking your toy gun rounds at Playdoh Combine and what have you.
I guess you really can salvage the game by compensating with story, but only to an extent. The gameplay needs to have that zing still. Old imsims are a great example.
@sun story is temporary, but doom is eternal
@sun the frustrating thing about this is you can tell this guy doesn't play video games or enjoys them.
enjoying games for story completely separate from the game is like enjoying a movie purely for it's visuals without any appreciation for the audio aspects.
good stories in games have to rely on some form of gameplay to communicate emotions and situations in a way that movies cannot.
it's the knd of mindset where someone would say "horror games have bad gameplay but great stories", the gameplay is not just complimentary to the story but rather an essential part of the story making a whole that makes sense
enjoying games for story completely separate from the game is like enjoying a movie purely for it's visuals without any appreciation for the audio aspects.
good stories in games have to rely on some form of gameplay to communicate emotions and situations in a way that movies cannot.
it's the knd of mindset where someone would say "horror games have bad gameplay but great stories", the gameplay is not just complimentary to the story but rather an essential part of the story making a whole that makes sense
