authentic christianity prior to platonism didn't have separate souls from the body. things like demons being disembodied nephilim are later changes
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@sun
Nephilim is a bastardised reference to Canaanite warriors (metaphorically featured as giants because of their intimidating prowess). As to "authentic" Christinanity, that's really debatable given the dozens if not hundreds of different competing Jesus cults in the first 3 centuries. Some which claim direct disciplic succession from apostles that actually learned from Jesus personally during his life (Basilidians, Naassenes, etc), were later vilified as heretics and persecuted into non-existence. They also incorporated Greek myths and philosophy into their theology. Nor was there any such thing "prior to Platonism" since Judajism and Christinanity were thoroughly immersed in the Hellenic cultural context by the turn of the millennium. The vast majority of Jews at that time didn't even speak or understand Hebrew, since they'd grown up with Greek as their first language and their schooling (if any) primarily involved Greco-Roman literature. Hence the oldest complete copies of OT and NT are in Greek and directly reference characters/concepts from Greek myth and Stoic/Platonic philosophy (eg. Hades, Sophia, Heosphoros, Logos, Psyche, etc). Even the name Jesus itself is from Ieso (recuperation) the daughter of Aesculapius, and Christoi (initiates of Aesculapius), who was among other things also Soter (savior).
Nephilim is a bastardised reference to Canaanite warriors (metaphorically featured as giants because of their intimidating prowess). As to "authentic" Christinanity, that's really debatable given the dozens if not hundreds of different competing Jesus cults in the first 3 centuries. Some which claim direct disciplic succession from apostles that actually learned from Jesus personally during his life (Basilidians, Naassenes, etc), were later vilified as heretics and persecuted into non-existence. They also incorporated Greek myths and philosophy into their theology. Nor was there any such thing "prior to Platonism" since Judajism and Christinanity were thoroughly immersed in the Hellenic cultural context by the turn of the millennium. The vast majority of Jews at that time didn't even speak or understand Hebrew, since they'd grown up with Greek as their first language and their schooling (if any) primarily involved Greco-Roman literature. Hence the oldest complete copies of OT and NT are in Greek and directly reference characters/concepts from Greek myth and Stoic/Platonic philosophy (eg. Hades, Sophia, Heosphoros, Logos, Psyche, etc). Even the name Jesus itself is from Ieso (recuperation) the daughter of Aesculapius, and Christoi (initiates of Aesculapius), who was among other things also Soter (savior).
@toiletpaper I am very familiar, I have an angle I'm coming at with this
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@toiletpaper it's personal tbh
@sun
It's important to make a distinction between unverified personal gnosis (UPG), and historically/empirically verifiable facts. Either one is fine, but confusing/conflating the two is disingenuous.
It's important to make a distinction between unverified personal gnosis (UPG), and historically/empirically verifiable facts. Either one is fine, but confusing/conflating the two is disingenuous.
@toiletpaper there is personal revelation, and there is liturgical revelation
@sun
> liturgical revelation
This is the more interesting to me in this context. If it has a historical basis, I'd like to know from where.
> liturgical revelation
This is the more interesting to me in this context. If it has a historical basis, I'd like to know from where.
@toiletpaper what I mean is, I can have revelation that is given to me and is applicable to me, anyone can, but I can't have revelation for the entire Church unless I am a prophet
@sun
Fair enough. But you made a historical claim about "authentic christianity prior to platonism didn't have separate souls from the body". Presumably you know that this debate also existed in Platonism and Stoicism at that time. But more to the point is what you mean by "authentic christianity prior to platonism". That seems like a historical claim that should be based on extant source material, rather than `I hallucinated it`.
Fair enough. But you made a historical claim about "authentic christianity prior to platonism didn't have separate souls from the body". Presumably you know that this debate also existed in Platonism and Stoicism at that time. But more to the point is what you mean by "authentic christianity prior to platonism". That seems like a historical claim that should be based on extant source material, rather than `I hallucinated it`.
@toiletpaper I'm not defending it and I barely made a claim, you can ignore it. what I meant is, historically it wasn't always a doctrine that there were disembodied spirits. nobody knows which one is true but its a fact that the existing writings find this (we lost more writing than we have though so it's hard to say)