then why in hell do they not let people use smtp and imap directly, why force the bridge down onto everyone?
plenty of other clients have supported pgp for ages
RE: https://social.vlhl.dev/objects/54294066-32ea-4bf4-ab65-9cf9fac3ad83
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14if proton mail were serious about improving e2ee email, they would've worked to have a standard extension for e2ee via smtp that other MTAs could implement, so that encrypted emails would not be limited to proton mail's non distributed, non self-hostable, proprietary smtp servers
@navi yes, we know how ESMTP works, we've been self-hosting our own email for over 20 years :)
@navi you're describing a technical solution (Just™ implement the feature) to a social problem (we already cannot reliably send mail to google, who is actively attempting to kill email)
@navi they are the 800lb gorilla in the SMTP room, and so if you're not considering what response they will have to other people doing stuff that they don't approve of to the protocol, that seems, to us, unrealistic. until they're removed from their primacy in the ecosystem, the protocol cannot evolve.
@atax1a @navi When done with Google, one must also deal with Microsoft as another 800lb gorilla.
I don’t know what Proton is doing *in SMTP* that wouldn’t be addressed by implicit TLS transport, which was effectively given up on as an interoperable mechanism with the reassignment of port 465 to implicit TLS submission.
Any ideas for revising SMTP should start with understanding similar efforts in the past & ongoing. A good start would be a look at the state of SMTPUTF8. It’s not pretty
@grumpybozo @navi furthermore, the ends of the conversation are the MUAs, so even if all SMTP transactions were done in TLS, that's the easy part. youve still got the metadata problems and the key management problems and so forth
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