Egregoros

@Bernard @Zardoz This is probably correct, or at least I feel it is. Problem is the line is harder to draw, and therefore harder to explain to people. Laissez-faire capitalism is minimal government interference in business (do what you want). Communism is no more private property, government runs all the businesses (the state takes care of everything).


Those are easy to explain to someone. There doesn't seem to be a bright and simple line to what we're imagining. You and I can look at a business practice and say "this is wrong, this harms the larger society", mostly because it's a gut reaction. But it isn't always easy to slot it into a neat, simple category. The explanation takes too long. The story has to be simple when selling something to people. We need a simpler way of explaining it, catchy sales pitch. A way to point at something and say, "This is an example of how it should (or shouldn't) be done under this system because X."

@Charles_in_Charge @Bernard @Zardoz Norwegian society for example have almost no difference from left, far left, right, far right. The country already got a general direction about how to run country. Save most of oil benefits for future, generous social net universally accepted by population, social contract of people understood by everyone. Generous welfare state, almost no corruption, no acceptance of deviation from norms regarding corruption. Government responds to people in policies, so small population, they answer to population, mostly ingrained shame reflex. Work security jobs secured by unions years ago by protests. Whole welfare state and country coming from people themselves by asserting popular will

Nationalism and communism are both socialisms. It's really that simple - sign up for either and you get the same thing. No different from a shit sandwich and a turd hotdog. In the end you eat poop no matter how you decorate or define it. Same result every single time.

Not sure why you're making out like it's really hard to explain. Any five year kid can easily understand this. capitalism is exactly not a socialism which is why the collectivist facomunazi contingent hate it so much. Plus they're all losers and can't make it in life without leaching off someone else hence the strong appeal to collectivism.

If anyone says capitalism bad it's because they want your stuff but too broke ass to pay any money for it. So they'd rather just gang up and take it - or so they think.

@sam_harris
You are using the same definition of socialism that I use. It simply means organized society.

Society can be organized in many different ways to value different goals.

under Marxist socialism, a.k.a. communism. The goal is destruction of all hierarchy and classes for the elite few who own and control everything.

Under national socialism, the goal is a strong nation built on strong families in a hierarchy.

Under capitalism, the goal is strong corporations with wealth and power gradually acrued to the internationalists.

Under racial socialism, the goal is the preservation and advancement of the race across nations.

Once you set the goal and highest value, society can be structured accordingly.

@Zardoz @Charles_in_Charge

How do you have strong families organised by a society of homosexuals.

"Hitler was aware of Röhm's homosexuality. Their friendship shows in that Röhm remained one of the few intimates allowed to use the familiar German du (the German familiar form of "you") when conversing with Hitler.Röhm was the only Nazi leader who dared to address Hitler by his first name "Adolf" or his nickname "Adi" rather than "mein Führer". Their close association led to rumours that Hitler himself was homosexual."

This is actual national socialism and it involves a lot of fudge packing if you want to rise up within it. Capitalism doesn't require any fudge packing at all in order to be successful. It's totally optional.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernst_Röhm

@sam_harris @Bernard @Zardoz And yet under our hyper-capitalist system, we have that system aggressively pushing the transing of kids, drag queen story hour, you have figures like Anthony Weiner pushing and passing legislation that makes it legal to knowingly give someone AIDs and decriminalizes fags screwing minors. Those famous images of Germans burning books was them burning the exact same kind of degenerate trash that is being pushed today throughout the US and the West.

Whatever some individual German's sexuality was or wasn't (and I'm not going to pretend like we actually know the truth of it) the system they produced vs system they fought, a system that looks very much like what we're dealing with now, that difference is black and white.

The Nazis didn't celebrate Pride month. Our system does. I don't think you want to attack this on the basis of which is more fag friendly.

I wrote this the other day, and i think it fits here too.

Capitalism is not what people do. People exchange money for goods and services. That is not "capitalism". it is exchange.

Stock markets, usury, transnational Capital are all forces of "capitalism" which are actually mechanisms of imperialism / domination leading to communism.

Marx himself explained this -- To many people -- including Abraham Lincoln. Transnational capital is what brings about "socialism" and "communism". Henry Ford also explained this.

https://gigaohm.bio/objects/d97cfe57-3539-4225-91d6-be3ae84b2f8e