do not use yaml. do not support the propagation of yaml. say no to 300 page specs for fucking plain text storage god damnRE: https://w3c.social/@w3c/116216070362563670
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8 do not use yaml. do not support the propagation of yaml. say no to 300 page specs for fucking plain text storage god damnRE: https://w3c.social/@w3c/116216070362563670
We need to shut down all working groups until we can figure out what's going on.
@vic i had an anneurism seeing this. the spec for json is like 1 page.
if you must go whitespace then consider nestedtext. it doesn't have embarassing issues like the norway problem.
if you must go whitespace then consider nestedtext. it doesn't have embarassing issues like the norway problem.
@icedquinn @vic AND json5 already exists to fill this exact niche while also having other neat upsides (backwards compatibility with regular json data and using perfectly valid ecmascript syntax)
@icedquinn @vic i mean fuck its the json-ld working group i shouldve expected this they're the reason activitypub is impossible to implement right
@coolbean @vic afaik the big crime with that is that people are parsing the json as-is and the ld tags are just for show. which means its basically not ld, since namespace resolution isn't being done, which is also basically what happened to xmlns.
there is more spec than i like to json-ld but its also basically working around json's lack of metadata and trying to tape namespacing on in a couple ways, so.
if it were up to me we would just store the triplets and maybe a prefix reference.
there is more spec than i like to json-ld but its also basically working around json's lack of metadata and trying to tape namespacing on in a couple ways, so.
if it were up to me we would just store the triplets and maybe a prefix reference.
@icedquinn @coolbean @vic
>afaik the big crime with that is that people are parsing the json as-is and the ld tags are just for show. which means its basically not ld, since namespace resolution isn't being done,
JSON-LD in ActivityPub is entirely optional and always was. You are supposed to be able to use it as plain JSON. If it was forced, most of the implementations would not exist these days, because parsers for JSON-LD barely exist. Those that try to make their own (Friendica and Iceshrimp notably) have constant issues with it especially in performance and when new contexts get added as extensions. It's a shitshow that only the LD fetishists in the WGs support, of which there are few.
This also creates subtle issues with representations for both LD and non-LD consumers. Completely valid ActivityPub documents may look different to LD consumers compared to pure JSON consumers.
What the AP writers did was, replace XML which was much better at this completely unnecessary linked data thing, with something that is far worse at it and almost impossible to implement properly. Honestly, JSON-LD in ActivityPub should just die, there's exactly zero need for it.
>afaik the big crime with that is that people are parsing the json as-is and the ld tags are just for show. which means its basically not ld, since namespace resolution isn't being done,
JSON-LD in ActivityPub is entirely optional and always was. You are supposed to be able to use it as plain JSON. If it was forced, most of the implementations would not exist these days, because parsers for JSON-LD barely exist. Those that try to make their own (Friendica and Iceshrimp notably) have constant issues with it especially in performance and when new contexts get added as extensions. It's a shitshow that only the LD fetishists in the WGs support, of which there are few.
This also creates subtle issues with representations for both LD and non-LD consumers. Completely valid ActivityPub documents may look different to LD consumers compared to pure JSON consumers.
What the AP writers did was, replace XML which was much better at this completely unnecessary linked data thing, with something that is far worse at it and almost impossible to implement properly. Honestly, JSON-LD in ActivityPub should just die, there's exactly zero need for it.
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@coolbean @phnt @vic the problem with XML is that it makes sense within the SGML lineage which is not how most people experienced it.
SGML was this massive gigaspec where the culture developed a self awareness that you kind of cherry pick which parts fit your budget. it had a lot of human aids to make ex. writing recipes easier. but because it was a gigaspec, and not everyone implements all of it, they decided what if we removed a lot of the customization and just made a dialect with a lot of fixed decisions that people could implement as an exchange format.
that format is XML.
the correct use of XML per greybeards is in the middle of conversion tools. like i posted last year, its like this:
- my cool key checking daemon only supports a single hardened XML parser for configs
- some domain specific language gets used to actually configure it or a GUI
- a translator turns the cool human version in to the XML document, after processing out all of the aids in to a single verbose document that is plainly (if tediously) understood
Sun didn't follow instructions and everyone else met XML through Sun. Thus begins the generational trauma to reinvent XML-but-Worse (JSON) or XML-but-cute (KDL)
SGML was this massive gigaspec where the culture developed a self awareness that you kind of cherry pick which parts fit your budget. it had a lot of human aids to make ex. writing recipes easier. but because it was a gigaspec, and not everyone implements all of it, they decided what if we removed a lot of the customization and just made a dialect with a lot of fixed decisions that people could implement as an exchange format.
that format is XML.
the correct use of XML per greybeards is in the middle of conversion tools. like i posted last year, its like this:
- my cool key checking daemon only supports a single hardened XML parser for configs
- some domain specific language gets used to actually configure it or a GUI
- a translator turns the cool human version in to the XML document, after processing out all of the aids in to a single verbose document that is plainly (if tediously) understood
Sun didn't follow instructions and everyone else met XML through Sun. Thus begins the generational trauma to reinvent XML-but-Worse (JSON) or XML-but-cute (KDL)